A brief interlude featuring Chaos Dreadnoughts.
Picture the scene - You've foolishly given your Chaos Dreadnought a Multi-Melta. At the beginning of the movement phase you roll a 1 for 'Crazed' and end up with Fire Frenzy. There's an enemy Land Raider 8" directly in front of you and one of your own Rhino's 7" behind you. So you turn the Dreadnought around to face the closest unit (Your own Rhino) blow it to pieces and then vow to never use a Chaos Dreadnought again.
Right?
I don't think so.
The rules say no such thing and I'm at a loss why everybody insists on playing it that way.
This isn't a matter of my opinion by the way it's how the rules are bloody written.
I suppose I'm going to have to convince you now aren't I? *
*Credit goes to Stelek at YTTH who had already compiled much of this info in a doc that I am borrowing heavily from.
First the rule itself says this...
Fire Frenzy. The Chaos dreadnought may not move or assault this turn. At the beginning of the Shooting phase it must pivot on the spot towards the nearest visible unit (friend or foe!) and fire all of its weapons against it - twice! If the Chaos Dreadnought cannot fire any ranged weapons, treat this result as a '2-5 Sane' result instead.
1) Have you lost all your ranged weapons? Are you Stunned or Shaken? If yes ignore Fire Frenzy and move normally. Note that being out of range or being out of line of sight of anything does not preclude you from Fire Frenzy.
2) So now it's the Movement phase. Do not move your Chaos Dreadnought! You may still pivot, as pivoting in the movement phase is not movement (page 57, main rulebook). This means I can pivot the Dreadnought myself if I like and point it anywhere I damn well feel like.
3) So onto the Shooting phase. Determine what is the closest visible unit. You determine what is visible on vehicles from your weapons mounting point. (Page 56, main rulebook).
4) Shooting phase. Determine your weapons mounting type, which on Dreadnoughts are counted as hull mounted (page 72, main rulebook).
5) Shooting phase. Determine what you can see using steps 3 and 4. You have a 45 degree arc on your left arm and right arm weapons, unless those have been blocked by terrain or by weapon destroyed results.
6) Shooting phase. Can you 'see' anything from your weapon mounts? Determine (by measuring, page 3 of the main rulebook) what unit (Friend or Foe!) is closest and in line of sight.
7) Shooting phase. Ignore all other units, even if they are closer than what you can 'see from your weapons mount point' at the start of the shooting phase (page 40, Fire Frenzy--beginning of the shooting phase you MUST fire crazed Dreads first). If both of your weapons cannot 'see' the enemy that you determined is closest, this is where you pivot to bring all guns onto the target.
8) See the closest visible target at the start of the phase, then pivot to fire--not pivot and then fire. Dreads cannot 'see' all around, no vehicle can. (Page 56, main rulebook). The wording of 'closest visible' is what matters. In the old edition (4th) you could literally see 'all around' with vehicles but you now cannot as this game mechanic has been properly defined as of this edition (5th).
9) Shooting phase. Attempt to fire all weapons twice at the target--even against targets you cannot hurt, Fire Frenzy requires you to fire them anyway. Any weapons out of range automatically miss, (page 17 main rulebook).
So as you can see what should happen in our example at the top of this post is that the Dreadnought fires it's Multi-Melta at the Land Raider (twice) as it's the closest visible target based on the rulebooks definitions. In fact if for some reason I was facing backwards towards my own lines I could pivot back around towards the Land Raider (As per point 2, above) and as long as it was the closest visible target based on the above parameters I'd still end up being able to shoot at the Land Raider.
The floor is now open for opposing viewpoints. Of course any opposing viewpoints that don't quote specific rules and page numbers that invalidate anything I have stated will be ignored as meaningless ;-)
i would agree with all of the above for say, a predator, but a dreadnought is a vehicle and so has additional rules that in some cases override normal vehicle rules. for example, on page 72 under "walkers shooting" it states that "when firing a walker's weapons, pivot the walker on the spot so that its guns are aimed at the target" meaning that it can swivel in the firing phase (unlike any other type of vehicle including immobilised) which renders your point 8 moot.
ReplyDeleteoff topic, is it possible to quote the rulebook without unintentionally sounding like a douche? lol
None of which changes the fact that whatever is the closest unit within my 45 degree weapon fire arc is what I'm required to shoot at as the target is closest(as defined in point 6),visible (as defined in points 3, 4 and 5)target. Nothing in the rulebook changes that fundamental fact.
ReplyDeleteThe point I'm making is Chaos Dreadnoughts aren't as bad as people think if your careful about how you use them in the framework of the rules.
Quoting rules complete with page numbers does make you sound like a twat. Unfortunately its the only way to make the point in this case, lol.