E-Mail In : Marine List Help.

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Hey there GMort,


I basically made the same post over on YTTH after I couldn't find your blog anymore. The funny thing is, I was specifically looking for your blog because I knew you actually played the list I'm going to post. Luckily enough, I ended up stumbling over your blog after all. I don't even remember how I did it.


Here's the list:


Librarian (Gate of Infinity, Null Zone)
10x Assault Terminators (10x Shield/Hammer)
3x Las/Plas Razorback w/ 5 Tactical Marines
2x Landspeeder (Stormbolter, Typhoon Rockets)
1x Landspeeder (Multimelta, Heavy Flamer)
3x Predator (Autocannon, Stormbolters)
---
1500 points total


The first two games I hung back a lot to maximize the shots my Razorbacks can dish out every round. Both of them were objective missions and I think I might have to move around (a lot) more. The third game was a KP mission in which I ran my Terminators into midfield largely unsupported because I overestimated their survivability when an entire army fires at them. A few other stupid mistakes made me lose quite horribly.


Anyway, to the questions:


1) How do I move my Razorbacks? From what I understand you charge Rhinos 12", smoke and make a train of sorts to deliver your army into midfield but they don't lose the firepower a Razorback does.


2) I only have 3 tiny Tac Squads and I'd lose Razorback shots by moving around too much. Is my Marine squad good for anything besides holding objectives? When should I drop them off to shoot something or move around and how do I deliver them to far-off objectives?


3) Should I ever move my Predators? For example to protect my Razorbacks from fire. I've had them at long range just firing all-out every game so far.


4) How do I move my Rocket Landspeeders and keep them safe? I've had huge trouble keeping my Landspeeders alive for any good amount of time. Should I prioritize their survival and possibly sacrifice some shots or should I try to deal as much damage with them until they (inevitably) die? I understand you changed your Typhoons to MM/HF ones. Does this work out for you? Can you deal with light infantry appropriately if you don't have any long-range templates? I was given to understand my army doesn't have enough shots each round to combat e.g. a ton of Orks to begin with.


5) What do I do with my Terminators? I tried using them to protect my other units but it hasn't worked out very well for me. I understand they have decent mobility with Gate, so should I use them offensively for the most part?


6) Is there a realistic way to deal with Land Raiders if my MM/HF Landspeeder whiffs or is placed out of range when it strikes in? Should I even try to deal with them if I can't kill them with the Landspeeder? Should I change my Typhoons to MM/HF Speeders? Lascannons and rockets don't seem to cut it.


As you can probably see I'm rather new to the hobby, having played only 3 games so far. The people at GW always tell me they don't want to talk me into changing my list and stuff because I need to play what I like. In the end though I feel like you improve faster if you get people to help you and point out the intricacies of the game. I mean, no one starts maths by coming up with all the formulas themselves.


Any help you could give is much appreciated. I hope my wall of text isn't too daunting to read.


Greetings,
fj


Reply :

Okay we'll go through these in order but a few things first. Though I still use that list fairly often I have made a few minor modifications to it.

I found the lack of Melta caused me a few problems against armies with more than one Land Raider and any Imperial Guard army with armour 14 front vehicles sitting in front of their squishier ones. I also got bored of my Librarian being punched dead before he got a chance to Force Weapon something to death. I therefore modified the list slightly to this,


1500 Pts - Space Marines Roster - Ver 1.1 'Thunder' list.

Its got more paint on it now than it did when I took this pic...

HQ: Space Marine Librarian (1#, 140 pts)
   1 Space Marine Librarian @ 140 pts (...in Terminator Armour; The Gate of Infinity; Vortex of Doom)
      1 ...in Terminator Armour (Storm Shield)

Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (10#, 400 pts)
   9 Terminator Assault Squad @ 400 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x9)
      1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
   1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
   1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
   1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

Total Roster Cost: 1500

Okay now to answer your questions,

Q1) How do I move my Razorbacks? From what I understand you charge Rhinos 12", smoke and make a train of sorts to deliver your army into midfield but they don't lose the firepower a Razorback does.
A1)  What you do with your Razorbacks depends entirely on the mission. In a mission with 2 objectives then you can often get away with having a single Razorback (and the unit inside it, obviously) sit on your own objective surrounded by a wall of Predators and move everything else forward. In a multiple objective mission (3 or more objectives) then I'd recommend a similar strategy. Unless an easy 'gift horse' is presented then I simply decide which objective I'm keeping and aim to contest the hell out of all the others or wipe out what's on a couple and then contest the others.
If you are facing an army with a lot of 'drop' units of one form or another (especially ones with a high chance of arriving early) you can create a wall of 'bubblewrap' using your Terminators, Landspeeders or a combination of both to protect your Razorbacks. There isn't much that will be able to land and put a significant dent in 10 Assault Terminators with Storm Shields and their inability to charge on the turn they land means your inevitable counter-attack should destroy most things.
If you need to sacrifice a turn or two of shooting in order to get into a better position for attacking your opponents objectives then that's a worthwhile sacrifice.


Q2) I only have 3 tiny Tac Squads and I'd lose Razorback shots by moving around too much. Is my Marine squad good for anything besides holding objectives? When should I drop them off to shoot something or move around and how do I deliver them to far-off objectives?
A2) I wouldn't recommend getting your Marines out of their Razorback unless there's an extremely squishy and completely unsupported unit that has foolishly moved close. Against anything able to defend itself then your probably better off putting some rapid-firing Plasma and a Lascannon shot into it from the Razorback instead. Don't move out unsupported until your fire-power has removed any significant threats to those units. As for far off objectives (as mentioned in answer 1) you can hold your own and contest the others. When you place objectives bear in mind how far away they are from each other, whether they're near cover and other such factors at the time you place them. You should already have an idea of how your going to deploy at this point, but I'm afraid that comes with experience and is difficult to teach reliably based on the near infinite combinations of terrain, opponent, objective location, etc.

Q3) Should I ever move my Predators? For example to protect my Razorbacks from fire. I've had them at long range just firing all-out every game so far.
A3) Basically your Predators are going to stay where you put them so make sure that's where you wanted them. Sitting behind your Predators with your Razorbacks and just shooting the shit out of everything while your Terminators Gate/Run forward is an entirely viable strategy and in Kill Point missions is more often than not your best plan.

Q4) How do I move my Rocket Landspeeders and keep them safe? I've had huge trouble keeping my Landspeeders alive for any good amount of time. Should I prioritize their survival and possibly sacrifice some shots or should I try to deal as much damage with them until they (inevitably) die? I understand you changed your Typhoons to MM/HF ones. Does this work out for you? Can you deal with light infantry appropriately if you don't have any long-range templates? I was given to understand my army doesn't have enough shots each round to combat e.g. a ton of Orks to begin with.
A4) Heavy Flamer Landspeeders will do more damage to a horde army than a couple of Frag Missiles ever will. If you want to keep the Missile Launcher Speeders then deploy one in each corner and keep on shooting till they die. You can move 12" and still fire both the Heavy Bolter and Frag Missiles as Frag counts as defensive due to it only being Strength 4.  However in my opinion 3 Heavy Flamers, 3 lots of Predator fire-power is more than sufficient anti-infantry at 1500 points which is another reason why I changed the list slightly.

Q5) What do I do with my Terminators? I tried using them to protect my other units but it hasn't worked out very well for me. I understand they have decent mobility with Gate, so should I use them offensively for the most part?
A5) Against armies that come to me I use them as a counter assault unit. Against anything else I use them as offensively as possible.


Q6) Is there a realistic way to deal with Land Raiders if my MM/HF Landspeeder whiffs or is placed out of range when it strikes in? Should I even try to deal with them if I can't kill them with the Landspeeder? Should I change my Typhoons to MM/HF Speeders? Lascannons and rockets don't seem to cut it.
A6) I changed the Typhoons to MM/HF Landspeeders for exactly those reasons.


I hope that answered your queries adequately. If you give me some examples of the sort of armies you face then I can give you some specific deployment strategies that may help, just let me know ;-)

Thoughts and comments are (as usual) most welcome.