I first got into this hobby at the same time as the most recent Chaos Space Marine Codex hit the shelves. It's bias towards renegade Marines (in background if not in actual tabletop units) appealed to me so after some consultation with the store manager I bought 'normal' Space Marines to use as my renegades and a box of Chaos ones to mix in to represent their chaotic nature.
So I basically started off using 'Counts-As' from pretty much day one. Back then they were the retinue of a Daemon Prince who was formally their unit Champion and I didn't foresee them expanding to quite the extent that they did. I kept true to the theme in a number of ways...my Khorne Berzerkers were a mix of Berzerkers and normal marines...my Obliterators were Terminators with Heavy weapons attached etc.
Later I had the bright idea to represent units by using a colour appropriate to them in the paint scheme of the chapter. My Noise Marines became 7th Company (Purple), Plague Marines were 4th (Green), Khorne Berzerkers and (some Blood Angels) were 3rd (red) and so on. This allowed me to keep the 'Chapter' theme without creating too much confusion on the tabletop.
Now we have an issue in the form of allies...
Lets say I decide to have some Grey Knight allies. These can be easily represented by my normal method by the simple use of giving them grey shoulder pads...simple...right?
Of course there's the additional issue that I sometimes use my 2nd Company (gold) to 'Count-As' Blood Angels (which should be red if I'm true to my theme I suppose) so there's a good chance that I'll confuse some-one, lol.
So lets say I turn up to a tournament and cheerfully* put down an army that has an allied contingent that matches the rest of my army in colour scheme but is different in a minor (but obvious) way....
"Those guys are Blood Angels and those other guys with grey shoulder pads are Grey Knights."
So the question is, is that okay or am I going to have to start lining Games Workshops pockets by buying 'official' models?
* Yes...cheerfully...shut-up you bastards...I can be cheerful...
Thoughts and comments are (as usual) most welcome.
I'd be inclined to say that a simple alteration of shoulder trim colour does not an accurate representation of allies make.
ReplyDeleteEvery codex is so vastly different in terms of play-style and colour that people would probably be very appreciative of being able to tell the difference between a Grey Knight and a Blood Angel at first glance, rather than have to squint closely at each squad's trim colour in order to notice any difference
Each companies style is different as well so anybody who isn't a total halfwit should be able to tell the difference.
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DeleteMy point is that Blood Angels and Grey Knights are exponentially different visually. Are you actually trying to tell me that saying this:
Deletehttp://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod680006a
and this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1140005&prodId=prod1160009a
are the same as these:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440273a&prodId=prod1060074
except that 'they are minimally different paint-wise so that's ok' then I would probably have a bit of a problem.
But hell, it's your hobby - and you put much more emphasis on competitiveness, effectiveness and viability, whilst I enjoy the visual, cinematic aspect of the game. These two views clash more often than they co-operate so this whole discussion is pretty much moot.
All points will be taken on board or there was no point in asking the original question now was there?
DeleteHave a look at these and tell me if the style is different enough to be acceptable,
http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/counts-as-grey-knights.html
Not confusing at all - in fact you managed to succinctly describe the different units in two or three bullet-points above. If a tournament player can't grasp that, they're definitely playing the wrong game!
ReplyDeleteI play in some of the tournaments in Mansfield (Maelstrom) at at WHW, and have faced 'top' tournament players (though only in game 1!) who have variously used blatantly Ultramarine counts-as Space Wolves,black Grey Knights, chaos marines as Codex Matines - basically, whatever the latest hard-as-nails codex is, that's what they count as this week.
Do as long as you're clear and consistent there's no problem in my eyes.
The 'My Ultramarines are Space Wolves today' thing was what I was trying to avoid by creating my own chapter.
Deletewhile i agree that the colour scheme idea is simple, it isn't especially fair on your opponent having to remember what is what. especially if the difference between a grey hunter and tactical marine is just the shoulder pad trim, an area that isn't massive and if in cover potentially difficult to spot.
ReplyDeleteperhaps in the case of war gear modelling that suitably would help, i.e storm bolter on gk, something to make it obvious from a shape or expanding the colour to the base rim or perhaps more of the model.
it can see some players who have modelled allies appropriately getting annoyed especially if it occurs frequently with other players as well
Wargear is always WYSIWYG. The only time there's any exceptions the differences are the same across the board.
DeleteMy 'Grey Knights' have Storm Bolters and Power Weapons (though some of the Power Weapons are done as bayonets for reasons of 'it looked cool').
If they have obviously Grey-Knight-ish wargear and insignia and it's just the colour of the armour that matches, I wouldn't have that. The important thing is that I can tell which ones are which from my side of the table, after that it's all gravy.
ReplyDeleteEach 'Company' is unique enough in style that telling the difference should be obvious.
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