E-Mail In : Imperial Guard Optimisation Request.

E-Mail In : 

Hey Garreth,


Attached is an excel document that has a few army lists on it, but the 1750 marked 'needs more work' is the base im working off, and what I used against Mike's Blood Angels (and that he duly thrashed).
Any comments would be welcome :)
In addition to the models on that army list i can swap any Leman Russ turret for A demolisher or exterminator autocannon turret. Also, i have another lascannon team, 6 HB teams and 8ML teams (which have no bases) , two guardsmen with flamers, a sniper, four ratlings, and a unit of Kasrkin with a melta and plasma (seargent with bolt pistol).
I might spend a little money too, so any suggestions on what I could add wouldn't go amiss :)
Cheers dude, 
Calum

Reply : 

Okay I converted your army list into an Army Builder format and found a few problems. Firstly you got a few of the points values wrong and secondly the Imperial Armour Vulture is (as far as I'm aware) Heavy Support not Fast Attack so your army is illegal even in tournaments that allow Forge World stuff.

We ended up with this. Rather than pick it apart at the end we'll analyse it as we go along.

1750 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster.

HQ: Company Command Squad (5#, 117 pts)
   4 Company Command Squad @ 117 pts (Camo Cloak; Krak Grenades; Vox Caster; Meltagun x2)
      1 Company Commander (Camo Cloak; Krak Grenades; Bolter; Power Fist)

Your Command Squad appears undecided about whether it wants to hide in the back or move forward and assault. If it wants to use those Meltaguns it's going to need transport and if you want an 'assault' unit there are better ways of doing it.

Troops: Veteran Squad (10#, 95 pts)
   7 Veteran Squad @ 95 pts (Vox Caster)
      1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Lascannon)
      1 Veteran Sergeant

Troops: Veteran Squad (10#, 95 pts)
   7 Veteran Squad @ 95 pts (Vox Caster)
      1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Lascannon)
      1 Veteran Sergeant

These aren't bad in of themselves but it's possible to get more Lascannons for a similar points value using a standard Infantry Platoon. Once you use the 'Bring it Down' order from your Company Command Squad then twin-linked BS 3 is actually better than BS 4.

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 195 pts)
   9 Veteran Squad @ 195 pts (Vox Caster; Meltagun x3)
      1 Veteran Sergeant
      1 Chimera (Turret Heavy Bolter; Dozer Blade; Extra Armor; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 195 pts)
   9 Veteran Squad @ 195 pts (Vox Caster; Meltagun x3)
      1 Veteran Sergeant
      1 Chimera (Turret Heavy Bolter; Dozer Blade; Extra Armor; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

For what they're doing (which I presume is drive forward and Melta something in the face) they don't need Vox's. Your Chimera's have a lot of unnecessary upgrades as well.

Fast Attack: Hellhound Squadron (1#, 145 pts)
   1 Hellhound Squadron @ 145 pts
      1 Hellhound (Extra Armor)

Hellhounds are fine but this one doesn't really need Extra Armour. Guard vehicles either blow up or don't, there's very little middle ground.

Heavy Support: Vulture (1#, 195 pts)
   1 Vulture @ 195 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Extra Armor; Searchlight; Armoured Cockpit; Chaff/Flare Launcher; Distincitve Paint Scheme; Heavy Bolter; Multiple Rocket Pod (x2); Multiple Rocket Pod (x2); Deep Strike)

With the points we've saved so far we can probably swap this for a couple of standard Valkyries or Vendettas which will be more useful generally and also be 'legal' in more tournaments. Personally I don't mind the odd Forge World/Imperial Armour unit in a 'pick-up' game but they can sometimes be poorly regarded by others due to the fact that Imperial Armour units aren't usually terribly well balanced...

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (1#, 255 pts)
   1 Leman Russ Squadron @ 255 pts
      1 Leman Russ Executioner (Lascannon; Plasma Cannon Sponsons x2; Dozer Blade)

These are awesome at destroying even the heaviest of Infantry but are bloody expensive.

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (1#, 230 pts)
   1 Leman Russ Squadron @ 230 pts
      1 Leman Russ Demolisher (Lascannon; Plasma Cannon Sponsons x2; Dozer Blade)

For what this will be doing you might as well go expensive (another Executioner) or cheap (a standard Leman Russ).

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (1#, 150 pts)
   1 Leman Russ Squadron @ 150 pts
      1 Leman Russ Battle Tank

These are fine for the points cost.

Total Roster Cost: 1672

Rather than turn your army list into a carbon copy of the usual 'net-lists' I'll just optimise what you've got and see what we end up with.

1750 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster - (Semi) Optimised.

HQ: Company Command Squad (5#, 55 pts)
   4 Company Command Squad @ 55 pts (Vox Caster)
      1 Company Commander

These guys now have a role. Which is sit in cover and make the Infantry Platoons Lascannons twin-linked.

Troops: Infantry Platoon (25#, 175 pts)
   1 Infantry Platoon @ 175 pts
      4 Platoon Command Squad
         1 Platoon Commander
      7 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster)
         1 Heavy Weapons Team (Lascannon)
         1 Sergeant
      7 Infantry Squad
         1 Heavy Weapons Team (Lascannon)
         1 Sergeant

With the potential of 'Twin-linking' from the CCS this unit does the same as the 2 Veteran units from your original list but cheaper. I usually join mine into a single squad with the 2 Lascannons but if you wish to keep them separate then it's worth giving the 2nd unit a Vox.

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 155 pts)
   9 Veteran Squad @ 155 pts (Meltagun x3)
      1 Veteran Sergeant
      1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 155 pts)
   9 Veteran Squad @ 155 pts (Meltagun x3)
      1 Veteran Sergeant
      1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 155 pts)
   9 Veteran Squad @ 155 pts (Meltagun x3)
      1 Veteran Sergeant
      1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

With the points we saved by removing pointless upgrades we can now have 3 Melta Vet squads rather than the 2. I've also put Heavy Flamers on all the vehicles that can have them which should eliminate our need for the Hellhound.

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship Squadron (1#, 130 pts)
   1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron @ 130 pts
      1 Vendetta

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship Squadron (1#, 130 pts)
   1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron @ 130 pts
      1 Vendetta

I've included 2 of these as a replacement for your Vulture. As you needed more anti-tank than you had. Besides which your Executioners and the Heavy Flamers I've added are plenty enough anti-infantry.

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (1#, 230 pts)
   1 Leman Russ Squadron @ 230 pts
      1 Leman Russ Executioner (Heavy Flamer; Plasma Cannon Sponsons x2)

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (1#, 230 pts)
   1 Leman Russ Squadron @ 230 pts
      1 Leman Russ Executioner (Heavy Flamer; Plasma Cannon Sponsons x2)

I've turned these both into Executioners and removed all the unnecessary upgrades. The 3rd Leman Russ didn't really have a role any-more so I've removed it temporarily.

Total Roster Cost: 1415

Okay so we now have a list that does exactly what your original one did and we have 335 points spare to bring us up to 1750. What you do with the rest is up to you but my personal suggestions would be,

Turn those Heavy Bolter + Missile Launcher Heavy weapon teams of yours into Autocannon ones and add them to your Infantry Platoon. These only cost 75 points for 6 S7, AP 4 shots and even at BS 3 they'll do some damage. With the points saved you could take up to 4 of these giving 24 shots in total.
For the same points (75) you could take a Hydra in your remaining Heavy Support slot or even a pair if you like for 150 points, 2 more Veteran Squads in Chimera's would be 310 pints or a pair of standard Leman Russ with Heavy Flamers instead of Heavy Bolters would be 300, etc.

There's so many possibilities in the Imperial Guard Codex that it makes my Chaos Space Marines book cry a little, lol.

See how you do with it just adding things you already have and let me know your progress and if you want me to write a full 1750 list for you then I'm happy to do so.

Thoughts and Comments are (as usual) most welcome.

E-Mail In : Razorback Spam

E-Mail In : 

I like your blog a lot and I figured that it would be easier to get a reply out of you than it would from one of the bigger blogs as they probably get hundreds of stupid e-mails like this everyday and the forums just disagree with one another so much it's not worth asking anything. I really like the idea of lots of Razorbacks but I'm not sure which army to use to make the best of that sort of spammy army. I have a guard army normally so I'll need to buy everything so it doesn't matter which codex I use particularly.


Thanks a lot,


Marcus.

Reply :

Well I hope my small, unpopular blog will be able to help you, lol. The larger blogs that have a reputation for 'list assistance' probably do get a lot of e-mails but most of them will give you a reply if you don't mind waiting a bit. Stelek at Yes The Truth Hurts might come across a bit abrasive but his advice is usually spot-on. Kirby (and team) at 3++ turn over a high volume of e-mail requests so is also a decent place to try as well. I am of course happy to help anybody as well as I quite enjoy the list building process.


First things first though. Razorback lists give up a lot of kill points I'm afraid, but are capable of putting out a ridiculous amount of fire-power. When it comes to Razorback Spam we have a number of choices so rather than pick one for you I'll do a list per codex and you can select the one you like best.


2000 Pts - Razorback Spam - Space Wolves

HQ: Rune Priest in Power Armour (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Rune Priest in Power Armour @ 100 pts (Storm Caller; Tempest's Wrath)

Elite: Wolf Guard Pack (4#, 144 pts)
   1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 144 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Razorback)
      3 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Close Combat Weapon; Combi-Meltagun x1)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Elite: Wolf Guard Pack (4#, 144 pts)
   1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 144 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Razorback)
      3 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Close Combat Weapon; Combi-Meltagun x1)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Elite: Wolf Guard Pack (4#, 139 pts)
   1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 139 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Razorback)
      1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)
      2 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Close Combat Weapon; Combi-Meltagun x1)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
   5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts (Razorback)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
   5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts (Razorback)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
   5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts (Razorback)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
   5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts (Razorback)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
   5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts (Razorback)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
   5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts (Razorback)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 90 pts)
   1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 90 pts (Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 90 pts)
   1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 90 pts (Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 90 pts)
   1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 90 pts (Typhoon Missile Launcher x1)

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (4#, 100 pts)
   2 Long Fangs Pack @ 100 pts (Missile Launcher x2; Rhino)
      1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)
      1 Rhino

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (4#, 100 pts)
   2 Long Fangs Pack @ 100 pts (Missile Launcher x2; Rhino)
      1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)
      1 Rhino

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (4#, 100 pts)
   2 Long Fangs Pack @ 100 pts (Missile Launcher x2; Rhino)
      1 Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)
      1 Rhino

Total Roster Cost: 1997

9 Actual Razorbacks, 3 Pseudo Razorbacks in the form of 2 Long Fangs with Missile Launchers firing out of Rhino's and 3 of your Razorbacks contain 'suicide' Melta units. You also have some additional Missile Support from the Landspeeder Typhoons. If you want more Melta swap the Landspeeder Typhoons for either Multi-Melta + Heavy Flamer or Multi-Melta + Multi-Melta ones and spend the points you gain on a Combi-Melta for the Wolf Guard without one and blow the remaining 28 points on whatever you please ;-)



2000 Pts - Razorback Spam - Blood Angels

HQ: Librarian (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Librarian @ 100 pts (...in Power Armour; Blood Lance; Shield of Sanguinius)
      1 ...in Power Armour

HQ: Librarian (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Librarian @ 100 pts (...in Power Armour; Blood Lance; Shield of Sanguinius)
      1 ...in Power Armour

Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 180 pts)
   3 Assault Squad @ 180 pts (Remove Jump Packs; Meltagun; Razorback)
      1 Assault Marine with Meltagun (Remove Jump Packs)
      1 Sergeant (Remove Jump Packs; Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
      1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 180 pts)
   3 Assault Squad @ 180 pts (Remove Jump Packs; Meltagun; Razorback)
      1 Assault Marine with Meltagun (Remove Jump Packs)
      1 Sergeant (Remove Jump Packs; Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
      1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 180 pts)
   3 Assault Squad @ 180 pts (Remove Jump Packs; Meltagun; Razorback)
      1 Assault Marine with Meltagun (Remove Jump Packs)
      1 Sergeant (Remove Jump Packs; Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
      1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 180 pts)
   3 Assault Squad @ 180 pts (Remove Jump Packs; Meltagun; Razorback)
      1 Assault Marine with Meltagun (Remove Jump Packs)
      1 Sergeant (Remove Jump Packs; Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
      1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 180 pts)
   3 Assault Squad @ 180 pts (Remove Jump Packs; Meltagun; Razorback)
      1 Assault Marine with Meltagun (Remove Jump Packs)
      1 Sergeant (Remove Jump Packs; Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
      1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   3 Assault Squad @ 165 pts (Remove Jump Packs; Meltagun; Razorback)
      1 Assault Marine with Meltagun (Remove Jump Packs)
      1 Sergeant (Remove Jump Packs; Close Combat Weapon)
      1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

Fast Attack: Baal Predator (1#, 145 pts)
   1 Baal Predator @ 145 pts (Heavy Bolter)

Fast Attack: Baal Predator (1#, 145 pts)
   1 Baal Predator @ 145 pts (Heavy Bolter)

Fast Attack: Baal Predator (1#, 145 pts)
   1 Baal Predator @ 145 pts (Heavy Bolter)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Predator @ 100 pts (Heavy Bolter)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Predator @ 100 pts (Heavy Bolter)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Predator @ 100 pts (Heavy Bolter)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Only 6 actual Razorbacks but with 6 more vehicle hills with equivalent or greater fire-power. The Librarians cast Shield to hopefully give all those vehicles a 5+ cover save.
You have 5 units with double Melta and a single Melta unit that can sit on your objective surrounded by Predators while you move the rest forward in appropriate missions. As all your vehicles are Fast you can move 12" and fire a single weapon or 6" and fire all of them enabling you to advance into or retreat from midfield and maximise your amount of fire-power into your opponent.


2000 Pts - Razorback Spam - Space Marine

HQ: Space Marine Librarian (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Space Marine Librarian @ 100 pts (...in Power Armour; Null Zone; Vortex of Doom)
      1 ...in Power Armour

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (6#, 215 pts)
   4 Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 215 pts (Combi-Meltagun x3; Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (6#, 215 pts)
   4 Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 215 pts (Combi-Meltagun x3; Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (6#, 215 pts)
   4 Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 215 pts (Combi-Meltagun x3; Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))



9 Razorbacks, 3 Predators, 3 suicide Melta units that also have Sternguard 'we can kill pretty much anything we feel like' ammunition.

You can of course use the Grey Knights codex for a couple of Razorback lists if you like but they work slightly differently and probably require a bit more 'Marine' experience before I think you should consider them. I will of course post them another time if you want me to.

A Final Note.
I'm not sure what the pricing policy is in your own country but here in the UK Razorbacks and Rhino's are exactly the same cost. I'd therefore buy Razorbacks and wouldn't glue the top hatches or doors on. If at the same time you invest in some magnets you can make it so your Razorbacks can become Rhino's, Predators, Whirlwinds or pretty much any other variant of the Rhino chassis with little effort.

Hope that helps.

Thoughts and comments are (as usual) most welcome.

E-Mail In : 'Pure' Thunderwolf Cavalry list.

E-Mail In : 

Love the blog, though my Girlfriend gets twitchy if I look at it of a Tuesday ;-). Anyway, I wonder if you could help me. I want to do a Space Wolf list where everything is cavalry or beasts or as near as dammit as I figure having no vehicles is going to screw over people loaded up on anti-tank. It doesn't have to be the most optimised thing ever but I'd still like to win an occasional game with it, lol. I was also considering using the Khorne Juggernaut models to turn it into a mounted World Eater Berzerker sort of deal but not sure if that's a good idea or not.


Hope you have time to reply to this,  You can use it as a blog post if you like. Can you leave my details out of it if you do though.

Reply : 

I've left the E-Mail intact but have removed your name from the bottom, If that's a problem e-mail me again and I'll just delete then whole thing and leave the reply bit.

Okay. You can technically do a 'pure' cavalry list but you'd have to completely table your opponent in objective games as having 'Troop' Fenrisian Wolves via Canis doesn't override their 'Can't hold objectives ever' rule I'm afraid. That tabling is a shaky proposition at best and becomes more unlikely when you add in the constraints of a 'themed' list. Because of that we'll have to have a bit of non-cavalry in the shape of Grey Hunters but I'll leave them on foot as per the 'no vehicles' part of your request.

A friend of mine is currently working on a Juggernaut riders list and several other people have also done them so I can see no issue with it if that's the way you'd like to do it. In fact as there aren't any 'official' Thunderwolf models then that might ironically also be the easiest way to do it. If going down that theme I'd still use Chaos Warhounds as Fenrisian Wolves rather than Flesh Hounds though as otherwise it's going to get really expensive.

Okay then. First lets have a look at what Cavalry/Beasts we can actually take,

Well for a start we can stick our Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf Mount and still equip him in pretty much any way we see fit or we can take Canis Wolfborn who actually comes with a Thunderwolf and as mentioned earlier makes Fenrisian Wolves troops. He also improves the initiative of Fenrisian Wolves and Cyberwolves to five and ups their Leadership to seven because of his Saga of the Wolfkin.
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders can also take Thunderwolf mounts but I can't see why you would want to in preference to a Wolf Lord. The option is there however so I thought I best mention it.

In our Elite slot our only cavalry choice is to put an Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf. He can also take up to 4 Cyberwolves which he'll most likely need as he only has one wound of his own.

The only way to get Cavalry/Beasts in our Troop slots is to take Canis Wolfborn in order to unlock Fenrisian Wolves as a Troop choice rather than a Fast Attack choice. This is only really worth doing if we have a lot of wolves that will be becoming Initiative five but even taking that into account we'll still need some troops that actually score.

Fast Attack is where we find the actual Thunderwolf Cavalry entry and in a list centred around them it's likely we'll be taking three units. That means that if we want to include those Fenrisian Wolves then we have to take Canis.

There are no Cavalry/Beast entries in the Heavy Support section though a couple of units of Long Fangs would help this sort of list out quite a bit. We'll just have to see if our original e-mailer is willing to be a little bit flexible ;-)

So in real terms we have the following choices,

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf Mount,
Canis Wolfborn,
Wolf  Guard Battle Leader on Thunderwolf Mount,
Iron Priest on Thunderwolf Mount,
Thunderwolf Cavalry,
Fenrisian Wolves

and one essential that I'm afraid were just going to have to deal with if the list is going to win objective games.

Grey Hunters.

With those parameters in place I'd do this,


1750 Pts - Thunderwolf Cavalry

HQ: Canis Wolfborn (1#, 185 pts)
   1 Canis Wolfborn @ 185 pts

Elite: Iron Priest (5#, 155 pts)
   1 Iron Priest @ 155 pts (Thunderwolf Mount; Add Cyberwolves; Rending in CC only)
      1 Servo Arm
      4 Cyberwolf (Counter-attack)

Elite: Iron Priest (5#, 155 pts)
   1 Iron Priest @ 155 pts (Thunderwolf Mount; Add Cyberwolves; Rending in CC only)
      1 Servo Arm
      4 Cyberwolf (Counter-attack)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (10#, 155 pts)
   10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 155 pts (Meltagun; Meltagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (10#, 155 pts)
   10 Grey Hunters Pack @ 155 pts (Meltagun; Meltagun)

Troops: Fenrisian Wolf Pack (15#, 120 pts)
   15 Fenrisian Wolf Pack @ 120 pts

Troops: Fenrisian Wolf Pack (15#, 120 pts)
   15 Fenrisian Wolf Pack @ 120 pts

Fast Attack: Thunderwolf Cavalry (4#, 235 pts)
   1 Thunderwolf Cavalry @ 235 pts (Rider w/ Mark of the Wulfen ; Thunderwolf Cavalry; Thunderwolf Cavalry; Thunderwolf Cavalry)
      1 Thunderwolf w/ Mark of the Wulfen
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Melta Bombs)
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Power Fist)

Fast Attack: Thunderwolf Cavalry (4#, 235 pts)
   1 Thunderwolf Cavalry @ 235 pts (Rider w/ Mark of the Wulfen ; Thunderwolf Cavalry; Thunderwolf Cavalry; Thunderwolf Cavalry)
      1 Thunderwolf w/ Mark of the Wulfen
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Melta Bombs)
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Power Fist)

Fast Attack: Thunderwolf Cavalry (4#, 235 pts)
   1 Thunderwolf Cavalry @ 235 pts (Rider w/ Mark of the Wulfen ; Thunderwolf Cavalry; Thunderwolf Cavalry; Thunderwolf Cavalry)
      1 Thunderwolf w/ Mark of the Wulfen
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Power Fist)
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry
      1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Melta Bombs)

Total Roster Cost: 1750

The Thunderwolf Cavalry are all equipped differently for wound allocation purposes. At 2000 points I'd add in a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf Mount (if you want to keep true to the theme) who'll set you back 145 points as a start and then arm him however you feel fit there isn't really a definitive 'Best-Of' Wolf Lord set-up. If your willing to compromise the theme a little then adding in a couple of Missile Launcher armed Long Fang Units would be a solid choice.

Well there you go then.

Thoughts and Comments are (as usual) most welcome.

E-Mail In : Recent Daemon List for 2500 points.

E-Mail In : 

What would you change in your recent Daemon list if you were going to use it in an 'Ard Boyz' style 2500 point tournament?

Reply :

To be honest I've never really thought about it that much. As the missions for the aforementioned event change from one year to the next it's not really possible to plan a list to exploit those missions till they're released. However it's my opinion that a 'balanced list' should do well regardless of the mission parameters as certain things are constant throughout 40K,

1) Hold + Take Objectives
2) Kill Stuff

With those basics in mind and using my recently posted list as a starting point I'd probably consider using the following,


Chaos Daemons Roster - 2500 points

HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 100 pts (Master of Sorcery; Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)

HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 100 pts (Master of Sorcery; Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)

HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 100 pts (Master of Sorcery; Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)

HQ: Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 100 pts)
   1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 100 pts (Master of Sorcery; Bolt of Tzeentch; Chariot of Tzeentch)

Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 190 pts)
   6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 190 pts (Unholy Might x1)

Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 190 pts)
   6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 190 pts (Unholy Might x1)

Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh (6#, 190 pts)
   6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 190 pts (Unholy Might x1)

Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
   10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts

Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
   10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts

Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
   10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts

Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
   5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts

Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
   5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts

Fast Attack: Flesh Hounds of Khorne (10#, 150 pts)
   10 Flesh Hounds of Khorne @ 150 pts

Fast Attack: Flesh Hounds of Khorne (10#, 150 pts)
   10 Flesh Hounds of Khorne @ 150 pts

Fast Attack: Flesh Hounds of Khorne (10#, 150 pts)
   10 Flesh Hounds of Khorne @ 150 pts

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
   1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
   1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 140 pts)
   1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 140 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Tzeentch)

Total Roster Cost: 2470

The 30 remaining points can be spent on a number of things that will depend on your play-style. You could give three of the Heralds 'We are Legion' so they could 'Bolt' one unit and 'Gaze' another, give Rending via 'Fury of Khorne' to the Flesh Hounds or even give six units 'Instruments of Chaos' it doesn't make much difference to be honest.

The best uses for these units can be found amongst the various 'Killing Grey Knights with Daemons' posts published over the last few weeks. Though the articles themselves are biased towards their usage against Grey Knights, the basic principles still apply to most other things as well.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Thoughts and Comments are (as usual) most welcome.

Another distraction...

Done a little work on this guy between other projects over the last few days.

From a 'Fluff' point of view he's my 4th Companies Captain. Not sure what he'll be 'Counting-As' yet though or if he'll ever see the 'Table Top' at all.

The uncanny way that photographs of models manage to show up imperfections that you never notice when your actually painting them never ceases to amaze me.....

House of Paincakes Article No.19

Article here.

On the subject of just why we pick the armies that we do.

The subject of this Tuesdays 'Eye-Candy' is going to be 'girls you wouldn't have looked twice at if you were at school with but would probably crawl through broken glass to have sex with now...'

Scarlett Johansson.

Lindsey Lohan.

Kate Moss.

Angelina Jolie.

Natalie Portman.

Of course time isn't always that kind...


Britney Spears.

And at other times it is...


Pamela Anderson.

Through the wonders of 'Google' I also discovered that time has improved a few other things as well...

Cheerleaders for one ;-)

For those of you who only check my blog on Tuesdays, see you next week ;-)

Plan For the Rest of the Week.

After my usual Tuesday HoP article is up together with my associated Tuesday link to it, I'm going to spend a week going through all the 'Please Help Me' E-mails that I haven't had time to look at yet.

After a quick look through my e-mails I have a backlog of about 10 or so that I'll be needing to sort out. I also have a few verbal requests for help from friends that I'll try to fit in as well.

Once that's all done I have two 'Primarch' Posts to upload (One of which is a 'guest' one) and really need to have a day sorting out all the links and whatever to make sure everything on the blog is current.

You may have noticed some adverts appearing here and there. I'll try to keep these as unobtrusive as possible and I may abandon them altogether if they become too annoying. The Wayland games one at the top is well worth a look though as they have some decent bargains on there ;-)

What If? - Daemon FAQ

Lets be honest the Daemon Codex has a lot of problems with it. It lacks anti-tank, is too random and has at least one match-up (Grey Knights) tailored to beat it.

Is this solvable?

Well in the world of computer games they'd have issued a 'patch' for it about an hour after it was released. Unfortunately Games Workshop don't work that way. Sure they'll clarify the odd point here and there and correct the odd spelling mistake or grammatical error with an errata/FAQ but until recently they've never actually changed anything.

Until the Dark Angels and Black Templars FAQ's that is. In these they actually changed parts of the codex or updated them I suppose. If Games Workshop don't mind changing the rules to bring them in line to more recent codices why can't they do that with the Daemon Codex.

Not the same thing?

Well, it is actually. All armies that have a Deep Strike orientated option have ways to improve its chances of survival.

Space Marines get Drop Pods that reduce their scatter so they don't land on units and mishap, Tyranids get Mycetic Spores that basically do the same thing, Blood Angels Jump Infantry only scatter D6 and can re-roll their reserve roll if it fails, etc.

And none of them end up with the wrong bit of their army 33.33% of the time.

I therefore have a few suggestions to make,

'Wishful Thinking' Chaos Daemon FAQ version V 1.1

Daemonic Assault.
The Daemonic Assault rule is modified as follows. The army is still divided into two equal waves but no roll is made to decide if the chosen first wave is received. Simply select which wave you wish to arrive first.

Have fluffy rules if you like. Daemons arrive by Deep Strike is fine if a little annoying, adding an extra stupid rule that screws them over even further is not ;-)

Additionally, when subsequent reserve rolls are made each unit rolled for may add +1 to their reserve roll should they choose to land within the 6" 'no scatter' zone of an Icon.
For example. A unit of Bloodletters with a Chaos Icon is already on the table having arrived in the first wave. The controlling player would like one of his units coming in from reserve to land by this particular Icon. He nominates a Daemon Prince that he has in reserve and rolls as normal, adding his plus one and rolls successfully. The Daemon Prince in question now must be placed within 6" of the nominated Icon.

All other 'Drop' armies get some help with accuracy and/or reserves so why shouldn't Daemons?

Chaos Icons.
Points cost is reduced from 25 points to 10.

These have always been too fucking expensive.

Changes to Daemonic Gifts.

Bolt of Tzeentch.
Gains both the Lance and Melta special rules.
In addition, the points cost for Bolt of Tzeentch is reduced by the following amounts,
Herald of Tzeentch - Reduced from 30 points to 15 points.
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch - Remains at 10 points.
Daemon Prince with Mark of Tzeentch - Reduced from 35 points to 20 points.

Lance isn't unreasonable as Daemons only have two high strength shooting attacks and only one of them (Tongue on the Soul Grinder) is higher than S8. The Melta rule turns bolt into an equivalent of a Multi-Melta and I don't recall anybody claiming that Multi-Meltas are 'broken', have you?

Master of Sorcery.
Any unit with Master of Sorcery capable of purchasing shooting attacks may purchase them multiple times. The original restriction on using the same power more than once still applies unless he has purchased a duplicate ability.
For example. A Herald of Tzeentch has purchased both the Bolt of Tzeentch and Master of Sorcery abilities. This would normally allow him to use both his Bolt of Tzeentch (purchased at 15 points) and Daemonic Gaze (a default ability) in the same shooting phase as Master of Sorcery allows him the use of an extra shooting ability in the shooting phase. He could not normally use one of these abilities twice.
However, should he purchase the Bolt of Tzeetch a 2nd time (for an additional 15 points) he may indeed use that ability twice at the same target. Should he also have the 'We Are Legion' Daemonic Gift then these may obviously be at multiple targets.

So for 90 points a Herald of Tzeentch can land and fire 'Bolt of Tzeentch' twice at something, which is (imo) entirely reasonable. For 95 he can fire at two different targets but remember he's still only BS 4. A Daemon Prince taking advantage of this ability with my revised points cost would still be 155 points which is still more expensive than pretty much everything in other codices with equivalent fire-power.

Something for the Fluff Bunnies.
Any unit taken in it's Chaos God's sacred number or multiples thereof gains the 'Instrument of Chaos' and 'Chaos Icon' Daemonic Gifts at no points cost.

Well why not?

So that's how I'd 'Patch' the Daemon codex. Armies could now be divided in a tactical way rather than a 'what-if' one. Reserves are more reliable and they might actually worry mechanised armies a bit. I'd probably reduce the points of some of the Daemon Prince upgrades and unit costs as well but that'll require a bit more thinking about. I'd seriously considered giving appropriate Daemons the 'old' Rending Rules as well...

However if anybody has any better ideas feel free to comment.

'Counts-As' Straken and some 'Fluff'.

The economy of the Imperium is reliant on the tithes required from the planets under it's control. Though these resources can be almost anything, the most common is also the most expendable...manpower...


Arcturus Prime, largest planet of the Arcturus system and main recruitment centre for the Night Reapers Chapter is of course no exception. Having a strong martial tradition, those amongst the population of Arcturus Prime that fail the extensive testing needed to become a Neophyte of the Night Reapers are still easily forged into more than capable soldiers and Arcturan regiments have fought in battles all across the Imperium of mankind.


Early on in the creation of these first regiments it was announced by the then Night Reapers Chapter Master that their progress would be monitored in order to evaluate training methodologies and to ensure that their conduct in no way dishonoured their home world and by extension the Night Reapers themselves. By attaching small units of Marines to these Regiments data on anything from enemy fighting methods to environmental conditions and any number of other important information could be added to the Chapters databases. Of course there were other reasons as well...


In the wake of the Horus Heresy the Legions were not only split into smaller fighting units but also lost control of the vast resources provided by the Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard. However there was no rule that prevented a Space Marine Chapter from offering advice and guidance to those same organisations. It was therefore decided that these duties would become the responsibility of the Night Reapers 12th Company. The 12th were instructed to join these regiments at locations scattered across the galaxy and to return all knowledge gained to their masters in the Fortress Monastery for analysis.


Numbering anything from a single Marine, but rarely anything larger than a Combat Squad these 'advisers' became a common site in all the Arcturan Regiments. Though these advisers were rotated from Regiment to Regiment in order to maintain the greatest flow of information (as well as to prevent those men from 'going native') occasionally issues of logistics resulted in particular Marines staying with the same units for considerable periods of time.


One such Marine has been attached to the 100th Arcturan regiment for several decades and is now so integrated into its structure that he has the honoury title of Company Commander...

Straken has a better than Marine Stat-line in most areas so why shouldn't I use a Space Marine to represent  him?

I'll tidy-up the model and if I decide I like it I'll paint it in Chapter colours with the exception of the bare arms which I plan to paint a Metallic Colour in order to represent certain of his bionics as well as to justify S6 and a  6+2D6 armour penetration roll, lol.

Thoughts and Comments are (as usual) most welcome.

A Bit of a Makeover...

A long time ago what started off as a small Chaos war-band known as 'The Knights of Shibboleth' gradually began to evolve into the 'Night Reapers' Space Marine Chapter.

That early war-band had a far more relaxed attitude to mould lines, model poses and highlights than the Chapter they were to become. As I'm also one of those bastards who uses 'Counts-As' a lot, my Marines have gone through a lot of unit configurations...Some more use than others...

So I've decided its time to update the ten Tactical Squads that make up part of my 2nd Company in both appearance and usefulness.

As my Space Wolves generally have a 5 Man Squad that sometimes also have a Meltagun,


Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 155 pts)
   5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 155 pts (Meltagun; Razorback)
      1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)


and my Space Marines are usually either,


Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
   4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

or,

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 220 pts)
   9 Tactical Squad @ 220 pts (Meltagun; Missile Launcher; Rhino)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Combi-Meltagun x1)
      1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

or,

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
   9 Tactical Squad @ 205 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino)
      1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
      1 Rhino (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter)

I needed to find a way to maintain useful squad types without having a lot of superfluous models. In the end I decided to reconfigure four of the units to ten men units with Meltagun and Missile Launcher and three to Flamer and Missile Launcher. This war-gear load-out when combined with my already made Wolf Guard with Combi-Meltaguns would enable me to create any of the above combinations. As I have been gradually making my Rhinos modular this also meant that I only had to paint one Rhino and an alternate Razorback turret per Squad.

They'd all need tidying up though...

Luckily I already had made an alternative Sergeant/Champion with basic armament from when I used a Marine unit configuration that later became known by the Internet as 'Melta bunkers'. A Missile Launcher Marine from an unpainted Devastator squad has also been transferred to '1st' Squad together with a weapon-less Marine that I found in a tub with nineteen other weapon-less Marines.....No I've no idea why either and I actually own them.....With the addition of a shiny metal Meltagun he finished off the squad (from a configuration point of view at least) nicely.

The 3 original squad members that they replaced have been put to one side till I can work out a use for them, lol.

Now it was time to tidy them up a little. Due to the amount of models I need to sort out I decided to keep the tidying up to a minimum 'tabletop' standard. They didn't need to win any awards, just not look like a blind, thumb-less, four year old had painted them.

Firstly I removed Mould lines from the more obvious locations like the top of the heads and outer sides of legs, etc.

Then I re-undercoated them and touched up the 'bare' spots with my usual mix of metallic blue.

Then I touched up a few more bare spots in the models due to general wear and tear and changed the cloak to match the newer greyer look of my Wolf Guard. I also changed the weapons from a light dry-brush of Boltgun metal to a more 'painted' look.

And also gave the new guys appropriate '2nd' Company shoulder-pad rim colouring.

My earlier models had always had a plain look to the guns so I decided to paint the outer casing of the guns black to at least give the appearance of having put some effort into the project ;-)

I also took the 'skull' part of the Chapter logo and made a fairly average attempt at some free-hand.

Previously I simply used the Chaos Runes for numbers as squad markings as they nicely represented a fall to Chaos and were also pretty easy to paint. As my Chapters history was subtly retconned to make them a Chapter that used Chaos artefacts but kept quiet about it to everyone else ;-) I decided to make the runes a bit less obvious. Instead I used a circle in the 2nd Companies colours and put the rune for 'one' in the middle as a squad marking.

I then based them grey with a couple of layers of highlights and painted the purity seals with a simple red seal and writing on black colour scheme that was simple but still looked fairly striking. I touched up the Rhino a little and added the skull to it at the same time. At some point during the process I've added a 'Badab Black' wash to all the Boltgun Metal but can't remember exactly when...

I then did a freehand white arrow with the centre in the Company colours on a removal hatch for when the vehicle is in 'Rhino' mode. I also painted a detachable 'driver/gunner' for the vehicle and added a squad marking to the front.

And then painted a Las/Plas turret for when they're in 'Razorback' mode as well as a mounting for it and a hatch to replace the 'driver/gunner'.

Looking at the pictures now I can see a lot of little imperfections that will probably bother me later but that I can live with for now.

One down, six to go.....

Thoughts and comments are (as usual) most welcome.

Warhammer Forge : Newsletter 6

Hi there,
            We have more new releases for Empire players to announce in this week’s Warhammer Forge newsletter: a command group for the Nuln Ironsides Handgunners, which includes Castellan-Engineer Falk, and the notorious Marienburg regiment Manann’s Blades.

Castellan-Engineer Jubal Falk and Nuln Ironsides command group
The current commander of the Nuln Ironsides is Jubal Falk, an engineer with a flair for tactical matters who many consider destined to become Guildmaster of the Gunnery School. Falk’s natural talents and dogged enforcement of strict discipline have earned him an honourable reputation, and he is well-respected by his men both for his skills as a battlefield engineer and as their leader.

The Empire Ironsides Command Group, sculpted by Keith Robertson, comprises three complete resin miniatures: Castellan-Engineer Falk accompanied by a musician and a standard bearer. Together they create a complete command group for the Empire Ironsides Handgunner Conversion Set, which is available from the Warhammer Forge website.

The Command Group is available to pre-order now for despatch in the week commencing 26th April.

Manann’s Blades Swordsmen Conversion Set
The infamous Manann’s Blades are a powerful mercenary regiment owned, outfitted and operated via intermediaries sworn to the shadowy Merchant Lords of Marienburg. This gang of ne’er-do-wells gather around a core of hardened fighters, veteran marines from the Marienburger merchant fleets who are utterly without honour. They have seldom sold their blades for gold in the Empire, and it is doubtful that anyone so feared (and as born a survivor) as Edvard Van Der Kraal could keep them in check.

The Manann’s Blades Swordsmen Conversion Set, sculpted by Steve Whitehead, comprises ten resin Swordsmen figures festooned with detailed Marienburg iconography, and is designed to be used with the plastic Warhammer Empire State Troops weapons. This is useful for Detachments as well as larger regiments, as twenty infantry can be built from a single plastic kit and this finely detailed resin conversion kit.

The Manann’s Blades Conversion Kit is available to pre-order now for despatch in the week commencing 26th April.

Warhammer Forge at Forge World Events

Games Day France – Sunday 22nd May 2011
Warhammer Forge sculptor Edgar Skomorowski and graphic artist Sam Lamont will both be attending Games Day France, which is held on Sunday 22nd May at the Parc Floral de Paris. They will be bringing a display of work in progress miniatures and artwork with them, as well as future releases that have recently been handed to our Production team.

You’ll be able to purchase our MkIII Armoured Boarding Space Marine and Chaos Dwarf Hellsmith Event Only models, as well as the recently released Eldar Lynx with Pulsar and Eldar Lynx with Sonic Lance, and the mighty Phantom Titan. 
Warhammer Forge models such as the Marienburg Land Ship, Theodore Bruckner on Reaper and the Empire Ironsides Handgunner Conversion Kit will also be available alongside the new releases announced this newsletter.

We are currently accepting reservation orders for Games Day France, and this is the best way of ensuring that we will have exactly the models you’re looking for, packed up and waiting for you.
To place a reservation order, please send an e-mail entitled ‘Games Day France Reservation’ to fwreservations@games-workshop.co.uk, making sure to provide your full name and a list of the items you’d like to reserve. You can also phone the Forge World Customer Service team on 0044 115 916 8177.

Forge World Easter Opening Hours
With the Easter weekend imminent, we can now announce our opening hours over the coming week:

Good Friday (April 22nd): Closed
Easter Saturday (April 23rd): Open 9am – 5pm (UK time)
Easter Sunday (April 24th): Closed
Easter Monday (April 25th): Closed
Tuesday April 26th: Open 9am – 6pm (UK time)
Wednesday April 27th: Open 9am – 6pm (UK time)
Thursday April 28th: Open 9am – 6pm (UK time)
Friday April 29th: Closed
Saturday April 30th: Open 9am – 5pm (UK time)
Sunday May 1st: Closed
Monday May 2nd: Closed

Thanks,
Ead Brown
Forge World Customer Service Manager