I've had a few e-mails about me still including Razorbacks in my attempts at writing balanced lists for 6th Edition...
The general gist of them come down to the fact that 6th Editions vehicle rules make them (Razorbacks) much less survivable and that there are better ways to spend your points. I would have to agree (sort of) with one of those statements (the first) but not the second. As regular readers will know, I don't include anything in a 40K list for 'fluff' reasons...they all have a purpose or they don't get into the list, it's simple as that.
Of course simply saying something doesn't make it so and as some-one who has had to listen to people talk bollocks on a subject for an hour or more with their argument boiling down to 'I'll say this over and over again till people either agree with me or start planning fatal accidents for me to make me shut up' I suppose I should justify my viewpoint with actual information*
*A radical idea I know...I doubt it'll catch on...
So What's Changed for the Worse?
As we're all aware vehicles are no longer the invulnerable, scoring, bunkers of safety that they once were and if your vehicle is unfortunate to be in possession an armour value that makes it vulnerable to small arms fire then that's obviously an issue.
One of the main issues for me is that vehicles no longer score. I know that the vehicle itself never did but parking a vehicle with a scoring unit inside on an objective was an entirely viable 5th edition strategy. However even with the more favourable vehicle rules of 5th Edition it was rare in the extreme for a player with Razorbacks or Rhinos to finish with many (if any) intact ones. They were (and still are) a force multiplier for your army. They added fire-power, unit protection or just got in the bloody way and now is no different.
Also, the overall reduction in cover saves (4+ down to 5+) seems like a nerf to vehicles but generally a vehicle in the threat range of an enemy weapon wasn't getting one anyway or was getting one from a psychic power or similar and that was most likely only 5+ anyway. Once you were in melta range it was generally goodbye vehicle regardless.....
What Hasn't Changed at All?
Protecting an infantry unit in an armoured shell (A Combat Squad normally) is as useful as it ever was as getting your scoring unit shot to pieces is never a good idea. I always thought of a vehicle as an extra Wound and/or an extra gun and that's no different now. When we are talking about five man Troop units we often find that the vehicle beats them hands down for fire-power relative to cost especially in armies that get a points break on their vehicles. Also the ability to rapidly redeploy a unit is exactly as useful as it ever was ;-)
Changes for the Better.
Given the changes in infantry configuration, reduced cover saves (they effect your enemies as well you know) and reduced fire from enemies in transport units it's a lot less likely that your Razorback is going to die to early suicide Melta units. The general trend towards Plasma rather than Melta as an infantry weapon helps in this area as well.
General Tactics.
With a 5+ cover save (from wherever you can), moving forward either before or behind your infantry (as appropriate) is how I mostly use my Razorbacks in 6th edition (and occasionally in 5th). Unlike other armies such as Imperial Guard and Eldar (and Necrons since the new codex) who stay embarked on their transports for virtually the entire game, Space Marines (of whichever flavour your using) have their ever useful 3+ save to survive with.
This means they can walk forward and fire with the Razorbacks advancing slightly behind them or if their using the Razorback for cover...slightly ahead of them. With even basic troops having options that allow them to kill a vehicle up close and basic Marines being able to just use Krak grenades to destroy your Razorbacks, using them too aggressively is going to equal a dead Razorback for any enemy unit capable of killing it. Your opponent/enemy may take the risk of getting in close and risking being shot to pieces so it's something you have to consider (and lets be honest that's no different from 5th edition either).
Specific Army Considerations.
We should probably do this in some logical order...alphabetically should be fine...
Blood Angels: Unlike the other Marines, you can easily run Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmagun Razorbacks because being Fast, you have the option of moving 12" forward and firing with full effect and being able to toast three Marines (or equivalent) a turn with consistency is a nice tool to have access to. Pouring those three shots into a light transport is damn useful as well for stripping away Hull Points (possibly not as useful as an Assault Cannon version would be for that purpose...I'd have to run the maths).
Black Templars: Realistically Templars have one option with Razorbacks and that's the Twin-Linked Lascannon version. I suppose they're useful to leave camped in the corners for some long range Fire-power but it's unlikely to ever be a vehicle that Black Templars would 'Spam'.
Dark Angels: To be honest I can't think of a use for Razorbacks in a Dark Angels list as their Troops don't really seem configured to compliment them. Having not looked at the matter to deeply there's a possibility I'm wrong about that though...not a big possibility...but a possibility nonetheless ;-)
Grey Knights: Sigh....Do I really have to....okay then, if you insist. Grey Knight are one of the few Marine codices that have a use for standard Heavy Bolter Razorbacks as they can up them to Strength 6 with the addition of Psybolt ammunition and can be used aggressively as they're relatively cheap. They can also make good use of Assault Cannon Razorbacks as additional fire support for the Grey Knights themselves who are probably better used walking in front of them than sitting inside them.
Space Marines: Generally I'll buy a pair of Tactical Squads with a Razorback each and Combat Squad them. One half sits on an objective armed with a heavy weapon and the other half gets a specialist weapon and a Sergeant with a Combi-weapon of the same type and goes off and kills whatever their weapon load-out suits. If moving forward the Razorback gets an Assault Cannon, If acting as Fire Support it gets a Twin-Linked Lascannon or if you want it to be able to do either then your best bet is the Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmagun type.
Space Wolves: Space Wolves don't get heavy weapons on their Grey Hunter Squads so a Las/Plas Razorback fills that hole in their weapon options nicely. Of course Space Wolves players can easily get cheap heavy weapons by simply taking Long Fangs...
...Or 'Rifleman' (That's a Twin-Linked Autocannon on each arm) Dreadnoughts. In which case you'd have the option to give them Assault Cannon Razorbacks to advance in rather than the Las/Plas version.
Okay then. That's my guide to why I think Razorbacks are just as viable in 6th Edition as they were in 5th. They just need to be used a bit differently that's all. It's also worth mentioning that a shot fired at a Razorback is one less shot fired at a scoring unit and that is often the difference between winning and losing ;-)
Thoughts and comments are (as usual) most welcome.
Location of the most recent breach into Malifaux, Latest area to be occupied by the forces of Cryx, Stronghold of the Dark Legion, Homeworld of the 'Night Reapers' Space Marine Chapter, Council of Seven allocated Deadzone and the lair of some opinionated git called GMort who they let hang out with them...when he's not distracted by Steampunk, Gothic culture or Cosplay...
Showing posts with label Black Templars. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Black Templars. Show all posts
Tuesday, 26 March 2013
Saturday, 22 October 2011
Throne of Skulls - Alex Y - Day 2
Following on from Day 1 we have rather predictably.....Day 2 ;-)
Game 4 Vs. Black Templars
Mission - Annihilation, Deployment - Pitched Battle.
Result - Win
Opponents Army List.
Commander c/w Chainfist,
2 x 10 Terminators, 3 c/w Lightning Claw and 7 c/w Thunderhammer,
2 x 6 Marines Lascannon + Plasmagun,
2 Vindicators.
Significant Events.
I was lucky to win this, I multi charged one squad of 10 termies with 3x 25 orks and 1x 20 orks and only took 8 casuties, killed 2 of his meaning I lost 18 orks on the fearless armour saves, this could have easily been twice that!
The vindis killed one squad of 25 orks with only the Nob surviving he survived one shell on his head by going to ground and then another failing to wound, saving me a kill point. Another was his leader failing 4 out of 7 2+ saves saving my big mek and yet another was 4 Lootas who survived a direct hit from a vindi and he rolled 4 1’s.
He was very unlucky. . . I did also get him to roll 34 wounds for his Termies in the second round of that big combat and he failed 4 saved on the Thunderhammer’s who hadn’t attacked yet. . . Did I say he was unlucky.
Game 4 Vs. Black Templars
Mission - Annihilation, Deployment - Pitched Battle.
Result - Win
Opponents Army List.
Commander c/w Chainfist,
2 x 10 Terminators, 3 c/w Lightning Claw and 7 c/w Thunderhammer,
2 x 6 Marines Lascannon + Plasmagun,
2 Vindicators.
Significant Events.
I was lucky to win this, I multi charged one squad of 10 termies with 3x 25 orks and 1x 20 orks and only took 8 casuties, killed 2 of his meaning I lost 18 orks on the fearless armour saves, this could have easily been twice that!
The vindis killed one squad of 25 orks with only the Nob surviving he survived one shell on his head by going to ground and then another failing to wound, saving me a kill point. Another was his leader failing 4 out of 7 2+ saves saving my big mek and yet another was 4 Lootas who survived a direct hit from a vindi and he rolled 4 1’s.
He was very unlucky. . . I did also get him to roll 34 wounds for his Termies in the second round of that big combat and he failed 4 saved on the Thunderhammer’s who hadn’t attacked yet. . . Did I say he was unlucky.
First Terminator save of the game and it's a bloody one...his luck stayed consistently this bad for the rest of the game. |
Apparently if an Ork really believes that a Vindicator shell can't hurt it then it doesn't..... |
Not statistically average rolling methinks..... |
Game 5 Vs. Imperial Guard
Mission - Sieze Ground, Deployment - Dawn of War.
Result - Win
Opponents Army List.
HQ 3 Melta + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Melta + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Melta + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Plas + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Plas + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Plas + Chimera (HB),
2 Hydras,
2 Leman Russ,
Exterminator c/w Plasma Cannon Sponsons.
Significant Events.
Mission - Sieze Ground, Deployment - Dawn of War.
Result - Win
Opponents Army List.
HQ 3 Melta + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Melta + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Melta + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Plas + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Plas + Chimera (HB),
Vets 3 Plas + Chimera (HB),
2 Hydras,
2 Leman Russ,
Exterminator c/w Plasma Cannon Sponsons.
Significant Events.
I couldn’t decide between Gaz up front or Mek so diced for it and the Mek won. Him and 50 orks in the middle of the table. Turn 2 Waargh and only 6 and 3 were left but made it to his lines and took out 2 hydras, the exterminator and stun locked 3 chimeras. After that I rolled up his left flank and managed to win 3 objective to none. He said afterwards that the army scared the shit out of him and he didn’t move so he could fire more. I pointed out that had he just rolled forwards he could have tankshocked me off the objectives and bunched me up into ordance formation. Also if he’d had Heavy Flamers on the front of his Chimeras instead of Heavy Bolters, he would have messed shit up!
Well that's Alex's tournament adventures completed. Next lot will probably go up on Monday and will feature either Mike or Chris depending on which is simplest to compile, lol.
Thoughts and comments are (as usual) most welcome.
Labels:
Black Templars,
Imperial Guard,
Orks,
Throne of Skulls,
Tournament
Monday, 30 May 2011
List Design for Beginners - Part 3(e) - What Army to Choose?
Well were on the home straight now,
Previous articles can be found below,
Blood Angels, Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines,
Dark Eldar, Eldar and Grey Knights,
Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks,
Space Marines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Tau.
Now for the last three,
Black Templars.
The recent FAQ has been fairly kind to the Black Templars as it has given them the Marine versions of many of the special rules and weapons stats. These FAQ's have breathed a bit of new life into the codex in much the same way that they did with the Dark Angels but not necessarily for all the same reasons ;-)
Mech - Due to the ability to give pretty much all your vehicles Power of the Machine Spirit you can make a mechanised Black Templars army 'pseudo' fast, by which I mean you can take Razorbacks, Predators and even Vindicators and make it so you can move 12" and still fire a weapon. This helps to get side armour shots with the Predators, shots after moving 12" with the Razorbacks and to have an effective threat range of 36" with your Vindicators. Combined with the 'Abhor the Witch/Destroy the Witch' vow and you can get an extra D6" of movement towards the enemy after deployment if the enemy army has a Psyker in it....Even an extra inch or two can make a big difference ;-)
Terminator Spam - Take a pair of Terminator Command Squads and another three units of Terminators from your Elite slots and give each unit a pair of heavy weapons and you have a formidable wall of 2+/5+ saves that are firing a combined total of 40 Assault Cannon or 20 Cyclone Missile Launcher shots per turn. For 3 points a model you can give them 'Tank Hunters' as well.
Black Templars work well enough if you use the codex as it's intended. If however you just like Power Armour then pick one of the other Marine 'flavours'.
Tyranids.
Tyranids are a difficult army to do well with based on how the current game works. They're are quite light on anti-tank shooting and in addition have problems with the way their Force Organisation Chart has crowbarred a lot of useful stuff into one slot (Elites). They can be made competitive but you as the controlling player need to accept their limitations from the beginning in order to avoid frustration.
The 'Death-Star' - Take a Hive Tyrant and give him a 2+ save, 'Old Adversary' and a few other upgrades, then stick him with two or three Tyrant Guard and repeat a 2nd time. Then throw both units at the enemy and hope they reach it intact enough to kill your opponent when you reach it. There are of course other variants on this theme but the basic concept remains the same.
The Horde - Termagants, Hormagaunts and Gargoyles are fairly cheap and Genestealers are reasonably priced (as long as you can reach your opponent without being 'torrented' to death) so an army with over a hundred creatures is entirely possible. This sort of build really requires Venomthropes to give it a 5+ cover save (amongst other advantages) but will have problems vs. vehicle heavy armies, especially ones that have any degree of mobility.
Stealer Shock - An old build that I never really rated even when it was popular. It's the same principle as the 'horde' build but uses Genestealers (almost) exclusively and relies on going first in combat (due to high initiative) and a torrent of attacks in order to cripple what it hits before it gets a chance to hit back. against vehicles you just have to hope that you get enough rending rolls to do the job. It bounces off Land raider Spam as well...
Balanced - This is the way to go with Tyranids (imo). Take a HQ of your choice, Hive Guard as light anti-tank, Tyrannofexes with Rupture Cannons for heavy anti-tank, Tervigons and Termagants as troops and advance the lot in a series of lines designed to give everything (except the expendable stuff at the front) a cover save.
Tyranids are generally considered one of the weaker of the 5th Edition codices and there are fairly justifiable reasons why this is so. With the growing popularity of Librarians (or equivalent) as HQ's making the possibility of your six wound monstrous creature dying to a single lucky Force Weapon hit quite likely and that same psychic defence stopping many of the near essential Tyranid psychic abilities from working it can be a bit of an uphill struggle for the Tyranid player. Grey Knights obviously make that Force weapon issue a much bigger problem as well.
Witch Hunters.
I don't see these anywhere near often enough to have a good handle on them so this might be the weakest analysis I've done so far. If anybody has considerable experience with Witch Hunters and would like to 'chip-in' with some filler in the comments section then that would be much appreciated. In fact I only know one really effective Sisters of Battle list...
Immolator Spam - Take anything that can have an Immolator as a transport and give it one and then fill out the points with Sisters of Battle in Rhino's and give all the passengers all the Meltaguns they can carry. This sort of build needs practice to get right but once you've got the hang of it you'll be popping transports and flaming the contents like there's no tomorrow ;-)
And on that somewhat of an anti-climax we've reviewed all the various codices...
Now that's complete I hope you can pick a codex that suits you and an appropriate build from it as the basis for your army. Next we'll start looking at some list building concepts that apply across the board like Duality, redundancy, Bubble-Wrap etc.
Thoughts, comments and filler for the Witch Hunters section are (as usual) most welcome.
Previous articles can be found below,
Blood Angels, Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines,
Dark Eldar, Eldar and Grey Knights,
Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks,
Space Marines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Tau.
Now for the last three,
Black Templars.
The recent FAQ has been fairly kind to the Black Templars as it has given them the Marine versions of many of the special rules and weapons stats. These FAQ's have breathed a bit of new life into the codex in much the same way that they did with the Dark Angels but not necessarily for all the same reasons ;-)
Mech - Due to the ability to give pretty much all your vehicles Power of the Machine Spirit you can make a mechanised Black Templars army 'pseudo' fast, by which I mean you can take Razorbacks, Predators and even Vindicators and make it so you can move 12" and still fire a weapon. This helps to get side armour shots with the Predators, shots after moving 12" with the Razorbacks and to have an effective threat range of 36" with your Vindicators. Combined with the 'Abhor the Witch/Destroy the Witch' vow and you can get an extra D6" of movement towards the enemy after deployment if the enemy army has a Psyker in it....Even an extra inch or two can make a big difference ;-)
Terminator Spam - Take a pair of Terminator Command Squads and another three units of Terminators from your Elite slots and give each unit a pair of heavy weapons and you have a formidable wall of 2+/5+ saves that are firing a combined total of 40 Assault Cannon or 20 Cyclone Missile Launcher shots per turn. For 3 points a model you can give them 'Tank Hunters' as well.
Black Templars work well enough if you use the codex as it's intended. If however you just like Power Armour then pick one of the other Marine 'flavours'.
Tyranids.
Tyranids are a difficult army to do well with based on how the current game works. They're are quite light on anti-tank shooting and in addition have problems with the way their Force Organisation Chart has crowbarred a lot of useful stuff into one slot (Elites). They can be made competitive but you as the controlling player need to accept their limitations from the beginning in order to avoid frustration.
The 'Death-Star' - Take a Hive Tyrant and give him a 2+ save, 'Old Adversary' and a few other upgrades, then stick him with two or three Tyrant Guard and repeat a 2nd time. Then throw both units at the enemy and hope they reach it intact enough to kill your opponent when you reach it. There are of course other variants on this theme but the basic concept remains the same.
The Horde - Termagants, Hormagaunts and Gargoyles are fairly cheap and Genestealers are reasonably priced (as long as you can reach your opponent without being 'torrented' to death) so an army with over a hundred creatures is entirely possible. This sort of build really requires Venomthropes to give it a 5+ cover save (amongst other advantages) but will have problems vs. vehicle heavy armies, especially ones that have any degree of mobility.
Stealer Shock - An old build that I never really rated even when it was popular. It's the same principle as the 'horde' build but uses Genestealers (almost) exclusively and relies on going first in combat (due to high initiative) and a torrent of attacks in order to cripple what it hits before it gets a chance to hit back. against vehicles you just have to hope that you get enough rending rolls to do the job. It bounces off Land raider Spam as well...
Balanced - This is the way to go with Tyranids (imo). Take a HQ of your choice, Hive Guard as light anti-tank, Tyrannofexes with Rupture Cannons for heavy anti-tank, Tervigons and Termagants as troops and advance the lot in a series of lines designed to give everything (except the expendable stuff at the front) a cover save.
Tyranids are generally considered one of the weaker of the 5th Edition codices and there are fairly justifiable reasons why this is so. With the growing popularity of Librarians (or equivalent) as HQ's making the possibility of your six wound monstrous creature dying to a single lucky Force Weapon hit quite likely and that same psychic defence stopping many of the near essential Tyranid psychic abilities from working it can be a bit of an uphill struggle for the Tyranid player. Grey Knights obviously make that Force weapon issue a much bigger problem as well.
Witch Hunters.
I don't see these anywhere near often enough to have a good handle on them so this might be the weakest analysis I've done so far. If anybody has considerable experience with Witch Hunters and would like to 'chip-in' with some filler in the comments section then that would be much appreciated. In fact I only know one really effective Sisters of Battle list...
Immolator Spam - Take anything that can have an Immolator as a transport and give it one and then fill out the points with Sisters of Battle in Rhino's and give all the passengers all the Meltaguns they can carry. This sort of build needs practice to get right but once you've got the hang of it you'll be popping transports and flaming the contents like there's no tomorrow ;-)
And on that somewhat of an anti-climax we've reviewed all the various codices...
Now that's complete I hope you can pick a codex that suits you and an appropriate build from it as the basis for your army. Next we'll start looking at some list building concepts that apply across the board like Duality, redundancy, Bubble-Wrap etc.
Thoughts, comments and filler for the Witch Hunters section are (as usual) most welcome.
Thursday, 10 June 2010
Terminator Spam.

I want to do a Terminator 'Spam' army, however I'd like to do it without handing my opponent a big 'auto-win' button every time I play a game.
The issues I'm going to have are.
1) Terminators aren't very mobile.
2) Power/Chainfisting Land Raiders to death is tricky if your opponent is inconsiderate enough to move them about (Bastards.....lol).
3) Terminators aren't cheap points-wise and it gets worse if you actually give them extra equipment.
S0 I'm not going to be able to max out on Terminators and maintain a viable list. 20 Terminators + Characters is about the best I can realistically get away with.
The following lists are just basic outlines at the moment but it never hurts to get 2nd opinions before you start converting stuff...
2000 Pts - Black Templars Roster - Terminator Spam
: Emperor's Champion (1#, 140 pts)
1 Emperor's Champion @ 140 pts (Bolt Pistol; Crusader Seals; Frag Grenades; The Black Sword; Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds)
1 Armor of Faith
1 The Black Sword
HQ: Commander (5#, 330 pts)
1 Commander @ 330 pts (Castellan)
1 Castellan (Crusader Seals; Power Weapon x1; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Terminator Command Squad)
1 Terminator Armor
3 Terminator Command Squad (Chain Fist x1; Assault Cannon x2; Tank Hunters)
1 Sergeant (Tank Hunters)
HQ: Commander (5#, 330 pts)
1 Commander @ 330 pts (Castellan)
1 Castellan (Crusader Seals; Power Weapon x1; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Terminator Command Squad)
1 Terminator Armor
3 Terminator Command Squad (Chain Fist x1; Assault Cannon x2; Tank Hunters)
1 Sergeant (Tank Hunters)
Elite: Sword Brethren Terminator Squad (5#, 260 pts)
5 Sword Brethren Terminator Squad @ 260 pts (Chain Fist x1; Assault Cannon x2; Tank Hunters)
Elite: Sword Brethren Terminator Squad (5#, 260 pts)
5 Sword Brethren Terminator Squad @ 260 pts (Chain Fist x1; Assault Cannon x2; Tank Hunters)
Elite: Sword Brethren Terminator Squad (5#, 260 pts)
5 Sword Brethren Terminator Squad @ 260 pts (Chain Fist x1; Assault Cannon x2; Tank Hunters)
Troops: Crusader Squad (5#, 105 pts)
5 Crusader Squad @ 105 pts (Meltagun; Lascannon)
Troops: Crusader Squad (5#, 105 pts)
5 Crusader Squad @ 105 pts (Meltagun; Lascannon)
Troops: Crusader Squad (5#, 105 pts)
5 Crusader Squad @ 105 pts (Meltagun; Lascannon)
Troops: Crusader Squad (5#, 105 pts)
5 Crusader Squad @ 105 pts (Meltagun; Lascannon)
Total Roster Cost: 2000
2000 Pts - Blood Angels Roster - Terminator Spam
HQ: Librarian (1#, 130 pts)
1 Librarian @ 130 pts (...in Terminator Armour; Blood Lance; The Sanguine Sword)
1 ...in Terminator Armour (Storm Bolter)
Elite: Sanguinary Priest (2#, 170 pts)
1 Sanguinary Priest @ 170 pts (Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armour; Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armour)
1 Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armour
1 Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armour
Elite: Terminator Squad (10#, 470 pts)
1 Terminator Squad @ 470 pts (Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher; Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant
7 Terminator (Chain Fist x2)
1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher
1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher
Elite: Terminator Squad (10#, 470 pts)
1 Terminator Squad @ 470 pts (Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher; Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher)
1 Sergeant
7 Terminator (Chain Fist x2)
1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher
1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher
Troops: Assault Squad (5#, 125 pts)
3 Assault Squad @ 125 pts (Meltagun)
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
Troops: Assault Squad (5#, 125 pts)
3 Assault Squad @ 125 pts (Meltagun)
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
Troops: Assault Squad (5#, 125 pts)
3 Assault Squad @ 125 pts (Meltagun)
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
Troops: Assault Squad (5#, 125 pts)
3 Assault Squad @ 125 pts (Meltagun)
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
Troops: Assault Squad (5#, 125 pts)
3 Assault Squad @ 125 pts (Meltagun)
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
Troops: Assault Squad (5#, 125 pts)
3 Assault Squad @ 125 pts (Meltagun)
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Close Combat Weapon; Infernus Pistol x1)
Total Roster Cost: 1990
2000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster - Terminator Spam
HQ: Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf (1#, 275 pts)
1 Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf @ 275 pts
Elite: Lone Wolf (3#, 105 pts)
1 Lone Wolf @ 105 pts (...in Terminator Armour)
1 Lone Wolf in Terminator Armour (Fenrisian Wolf; Chain Fist; Storm Shield)
2 Fenrisian Wolf (Unit Type: Beasts; Vicious claws and fangs; Counter-attack)
Elite: Lone Wolf (3#, 105 pts)
1 Lone Wolf @ 105 pts (...in Terminator Armour)
1 Lone Wolf in Terminator Armour (Fenrisian Wolf; Chain Fist; Storm Shield)
2 Fenrisian Wolf (Unit Type: Beasts; Vicious claws and fangs; Counter-attack)
Elite: Lone Wolf (3#, 105 pts)
1 Lone Wolf @ 105 pts (...in Terminator Armour)
1 Lone Wolf in Terminator Armour (Fenrisian Wolf; Chain Fist; Storm Shield)
2 Fenrisian Wolf (Unit Type: Beasts; Vicious claws and fangs; Counter-attack)
Troops: Wolf Guard Pack (5#, 240 pts)
1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 240 pts (Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Cyclone Missile Launcher)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour
3 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist)
Troops: Wolf Guard Pack (5#, 240 pts)
1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 240 pts (Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Cyclone Missile Launcher)
3 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist)
Troops: Wolf Guard Pack (5#, 240 pts)
1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 240 pts (Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Cyclone Missile Launcher)
3 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist)
Troops: Wolf Guard Pack (5#, 240 pts)
1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 240 pts (Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Cyclone Missile Launcher)
3 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist)
Troops: Wolf Guard Pack (5#, 240 pts)
1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 240 pts (Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Cyclone Missile Launcher)
3 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Chain Fist)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)
Total Roster Cost: 2000
2000 Pts - Space Marines Roster - Terminator Spam
HQ: Space Marine Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
1 Space Marine Librarian @ 125 pts (...in Terminator Armour; Null Zone; The Gate of Infinity)
1 ...in Terminator Armour
HQ: Space Marine Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
1 Space Marine Librarian @ 125 pts (...in Terminator Armour; Null Zone; The Gate of Infinity)
1 ...in Terminator Armour
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (10#, 400 pts)
9 Terminator Assault Squad @ 400 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x9)
1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (10#, 400 pts)
9 Terminator Assault Squad @ 400 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x9)
1 Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)
Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)
Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)
Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
4 Tactical Squad @ 165 pts (Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (2#, 100 pts)
2 Attack Bike Squad @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta x2)
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (2#, 100 pts)
2 Attack Bike Squad @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta x2)
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))
Total Roster Cost: 2000
2000 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster - Terminator Spam
HQ: Abaddon the Despoiler (1#, 275 pts)
1 Abaddon the Despoiler @ 275 pts
Elite: Chaos Terminators (10#, 425 pts)
1 Chaos Terminators @ 425 pts (Icon of Tzeentch; Terminator; Terminator; Terminator; Terminator)
6 Terminator (Combi-melta x2)
1 Terminator (Reaper Autocannon x1)
1 Terminator (Reaper Autocannon x1)
2 Terminator (Chain Fist x2)
Elite: Chaos Terminators (10#, 425 pts)
1 Chaos Terminators @ 425 pts (Icon of Tzeentch; Terminator; Terminator; Terminator; Terminator)
6 Terminator (Combi-melta x2)
1 Terminator (Reaper Autocannon x1)
1 Terminator (Reaper Autocannon x1)
2 Terminator (Chain Fist x2)
Troops: Plague Marines (5#, 140 pts)
5 Plague Marines @ 140 pts (Personal Icon; Meltagun x2)
Troops: Plague Marines (5#, 140 pts)
5 Plague Marines @ 140 pts (Personal Icon; Meltagun x2)
Troops: Plague Marines (5#, 140 pts)
5 Plague Marines @ 140 pts (Personal Icon; Meltagun x2)
Heavy Support: Obliterators (2#, 150 pts)
2 Obliterators @ 150 pts
Heavy Support: Obliterators (2#, 150 pts)
2 Obliterators @ 150 pts
Heavy Support: Obliterators (2#, 150 pts)
2 Obliterators @ 150 pts
Total Roster Cost: 1995
Also I know I missed out Grey Knights but have you seen an optimised pure Grey Knights army win a game, let alone a themed one?
Obviously it's possible to cram more Terminators into most of these lists but unfortunately 5th Ed. makes Troops choices a bit more essential than they used to be...
Thoughts?
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